Tom Says:
July 27th, 2007 at 7:41 pm

Lmao…good luck on trying to pinn their deaths on the car thief. It’s their own stupidity that caused the crash, not him.

martin Says:
July 28th, 2007 at 12:12 am

“The police chief said the suspect will likely face criminal charges for the deaths in the helicopter crash”

That is absurd. How can he take the blame for pilot error?

Tressa Turner Says:
July 28th, 2007 at 1:31 am

I’m sorry for the families and friends left behind. However, I agree with the other poster. Our society craves and demands this type of immediate coverage. We may all deny it, but someone certainly watches and reads this type of ‘news’ to the point of the media mania we have today. Nothing has been learned since Princess Diana. What bothers me most about this story is that the man who was being chased by the police, the alledged criminal in the story, is most likely to be charged with the deaths (or at least contributing to the deaths) of these 4 people. WHAT?!?

Justin Says:
July 28th, 2007 at 4:49 am

I have to weigh in on this too. Charging the suspect with 4 murders is absolutely absurd. I am certainly glad I don’t live in Phoenix; I would hate to be walking down the street, witness an accident, and then be charged with causing the accident. Chief Jack Harris was obviously caught up in the heat of the moment when he made that comment, I just hope he is big enough to admit it was a mistake.

kriselda jarnsaxa Says:
July 28th, 2007 at 10:10 am

In regards to holding the driver responsible for the crashes, I think they may be looking at it from a “felony murder” perspective. In most states, if you are committing a felony and *anyone* dies as a result of that felony, you can be charged with their murder. Typically this statue is used in situation where, for example, 2 people are robbing a bank - one goes inside the bank and one waits outside in the car. If anyone in the bank - including the robber - is killed, the guy in the car - even though he did nothing but sit in the car - can be charged with felony murder.

In this case, I think Chief Harris is looking at it from the perspective that the driver was engaged in a felony criminal action and should have reasonably known that doing so could put others at risk. Since the crash occurred as the result of his fleeing (without which the helicopters would not have been in the air), if I’m understanding Harri’s reasoning correctly, the driver can be charged with felony murder.

Do I think that’s fair? I’m honestly not sure. Obviously, our desire to see such things as chases contributed significantly, as did pilot error. As the same time, however, the guy WAS fleeing from the police, and as such was directly putting the public at risk from his actions. I mean, if, as part of his actions to elude the police, he ran a red light and two other cars who had the green light at that intersection crashed just after he went through (from trying to swerve to avoid hitting the fleeing car or from being distracted by the fleeing card, etc.), killing all four, I doubt there’d be much of an argument about his responsibility. Even though the driver himself didn’t hit either of the colliding cars and that it could be argued that the drivers should have been watching more closely, I think most people would actually *expect* him to be charged in those deaths. And who knows? Maybe if criminals were to realize that they can be held responsible for any deaths that occurred as a result of their resisting arrest, some of them (though, obviously not all - or even most, I suspect) might think twice.

Like I said, though, I’m not sure if that would be an appropriate way to handle this situation. I can, however, see how it might be played out that way.

Tony Says:
July 28th, 2007 at 11:57 am

Firstly, my sympathies to the families and friends left behind. These good people do to some extent risk their lives everyday…. that said how can Chief Jack Harris possibly try and put this accident on the shoulders of the suspect?

Did anyone else die within a 5, 10 or 20 mile radius of the chase that day that you can charge the suspect with? This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and could prove to be a very dangerous precedent.

If convicted, the suspect should face the consequences for the crimes he intentionally committed.

In my opinion news helicopters should not be allowed follow chases from the air… this is the role of the police…

Diana Quick Says:
July 28th, 2007 at 11:18 pm

Okay, I live about 2 hours north of Phoenix and lived IN Phoenix for 18 years. The pilots were communicating very extensively with each other but there was some confusion regarding their respective positions in the end. This tragedy is hitting not only Phoenix, but most of Arizona pretty hard and I believe that the D.A. will probably charge the chase suspect with felony murder for the exact reason that was listed in a previous post. As it is he is facing multiple aggravated assault charges as well as grand theft auto.

Tressa Turner Says:
July 29th, 2007 at 1:54 am

I am familiar with the charge of ‘felony murder’. I understand what you are saying (kriselda j.). I see this as an additional charge that allows the D.A. leverage Sometimes it is clearly deserved. However I believe this extra charge is just as often brought against defendants more as a bargaining chip for sentencing pleas than for any other reason.

For example: a burglar breaks and enters into a home during which the owner has a heart attack and dies; the related charged of felony murder is generally brought. The death is clearly connected and was a foreseeable consequence of the criminal act.

In the current case, I think any decent attorney (even a public defender with such a high profile case) will be able to get these charges dropped or at least reduced. The alledged felon was stealing vehicles; upon doing so he drew the attention of the police resulting in a police chase.

Two rival news teams (from what I’ve read - very competetive teams) took it upon themselves to pursue the pursued. In fact, there was also a third news helicopter in the chase as well.

Apparently a slow news day in Phoenix. For this kind of live coverage I would have expected the suspect to at least have robbed a bank, held hostages - something besides auto theft.

There was absolutely no was these deaths were foreseeable, as the death of the owner in the burglary example was.

I think the sad outcome (and of course our innate human necessity to place the blame on a tangible person/object to punish) combines two of the current problem areas we’ve been trying to bring to the attention of the authorities now for quite a while:

> Out of control car chases with no violent crime having been commited. Are we chasing a murderer, child kidnapper or a check kiter, car hijacker? Some demand capture for public safety; others do not justify a 100 mph chase through 25 mph residential areas.

> Our media, via our constant craving for news coverage, is out of hand. This is a more difficult phenomenon to cure than the first. Profit is involved. Curiousity is involved.

We demand more news; it seems the worse the better.

Every negative event happening at the moment being covered by cnn.com now has a link entitled(paraphrased): ‘Are you there? Click here to share your videos and pictures! Or what I find more worrisome is reading a disturbing news item and in the middle we have the option to ‘Click here to see the victims bullet riddled bodies dragged to the street’.

Will it ever be enough? Do we consider our lives so dull, routine and full of daily problems that we crave to see others that have screwed up even worse than we have? Perhaps it makes us feel psychologically relieved and intellectually superior when we can watch these things and mutter ‘ What an idiot’ - feeling so relieved that all we have to deal with is a failing economy and loss of employment.

Again, my sincere sympathies to these families and friends. This is a terrible accident and I’m sure the blame game is not helping.

scott reasons Says:
July 29th, 2007 at 8:33 am

I live in the phoenix area. Tragic day for this community. My understanding was it was due to pilot error and miscommunication. They said that air traffic control leaves communication to the pilots when helicopter pilots are flying that low. They were only at 500 ft. when it occurred. “i’m coming up on your left hand side” so to speak. So the error came from one if not both of the pilots.
As for the suspect…totally ridiculous he is being charged. This county is notorious for these types of things. Sherriff Joe’s influence and a crooked Procecuting attorney looking for publicity.
First of all they were news reporters. had it been a police helicopter trying to apprehend a suspect this would hold water. But they were merely trying to get a story and film it.
I am just telling all of you that this type of thing happens in Phoenix all the time. Charges get blown way out of proportion in order to get other things to stick during the legal process. It will never hold up. Granted the suspect was wrong for committing a crime but there was no intent on his part.
The cause of the accident was created by a vacuum type of suction the helicopters create. When they got to close, that suction pulled the two crafts together like a magnet. How is he to blame for that??

Glen Smith Says:
July 29th, 2007 at 10:55 am

What happens if the news choppers crash while landing after returning to the stations. The suspect is in custody, they aren’t even in sight of each other - but the only reason the choppers were up was to film the chase. Is it still felony murder? Sounds like a stretch to me.

So the guy who refuels the chopper has a tragic accident forgeting to extinguish his butt before starting the flow of av gas. The tanks were empty ’cause the suspect led police on such a long chase.

How about the multi-car accident that happened 6 blocks away becasue someone was watching the pretty helicopters instead of driving.

Felony murder charges are appropriate in some cases - not this one.

Glen

L. O'Brien Says:
July 29th, 2007 at 3:15 pm

The suspect will probably be charged with manslaughter, since it was his action, i.e. fleeing the police and instigating the chase, that led to the presence of the helicopters in the air and the resulting collision because it was his reckless indifference that led to the deaths of the four men on those helicopters. The fact that two helicopters crashing wasn’t a foreseeable result of his actions will likely lead to an acquittal, or a decision by the prosecutor not to file the charges at all. He stated that he wasn’t even aware of the helicopters, which bolsters the lack of a causal connection between his flight and the crash.

Had he gotten out of the truck and started firing at the helicopters (thinking they belonged to police) and one craft was struck and crashed into the other, or the pilots of each took evasive actions and crashed, there would be a stronger causal connection.

It’s the same principle that would apply if the suspect had crashed one of the two vehicles he was driving into another vehicle, or a police vehicle, killing the occupants of those vehicles. If there was evidence that he deliberately steered the vehicle he was in toward another vehicle, he would be charged with murder. If he lost control of the vehicle and crashed into the victim vehicle, he’d be guilty of manslaughter.

Perhaps police departments need to start a public relations campaign that lets criminals in the area know that if you flee, we will chase you until we stop you. Driving away does not mean you won’t get caught and you will be held responsible for any negative events that occur during the time you’re being chased.

L. O’Brien

sfreeman Says:
July 29th, 2007 at 4:10 pm

I have to agree with the last comment. I live in Phoenix as well. Although it is horrible that this even had to happen, I don’t see the suspect being help accountable for their deaths. Be it human error or mechanical error, this could have happened at any time during any other situation where the helicopters were in the air. Yes, during a chase the helicopters do need to move around so there is a higher risk in that…but the pilots all know that and are trained to know that risk before even getting into the helicopter. accidents happen every day and unfortunately this time it happened to four wonderful men who I believe died way too soon.

The entire city is hurt and angry…but what if this had’ve happened during a fire or during one of our storms in monsoon season?? The outcry is much worse because it is I think the first of its kind…but we can’t create new charges for something that could have happened during any other chase. If the police want to change the laws regarding chases to include injury to the media, then do so because of this….but making an example of this man won’t work.

RIP to the four men who we lost Friday.